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	<title>Comments on: DB&#8217;s Considered Harmful [... to my sanity.]</title>
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	<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/04/dbs-considered-harmful-to-my-sanity/</link>
	<description>ZOMGWTFHAI</description>
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		<title>By: Adam Frisby</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/04/dbs-considered-harmful-to-my-sanity/comment-page-1/#comment-7980</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Frisby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 18:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=230#comment-7980</guid>
		<description>Btw, definetely always looking for extra volunteers - there&#039;s a ridiculous amount of work that needs to be done with this stuff. I&#039;ll grab you on Facebook or something tommorow/today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Btw, definetely always looking for extra volunteers &#8211; there&#8217;s a ridiculous amount of work that needs to be done with this stuff. I&#8217;ll grab you on Facebook or something tommorow/today.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Frisby</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/04/dbs-considered-harmful-to-my-sanity/comment-page-1/#comment-7979</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Frisby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 18:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=230#comment-7979</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve varied between InnoDB and MyISAM for this, MyISAM has unfortunate table-level locking which can hit us badly if we try do analysis on the table while the grid is running; but we&#039;ve found it is more reliable - InnoDB has corrupted for us in the past and unlike MyISAM, there are no innodb repair tools - had to restore from backup.

Underlying disk is a RAID1 SCSI array, so the speed there isnt too much of a problem. The hardware itself is fairly decent -- but it&#039;s our experience that MySQL just doesnt do &#039;big data&#039; well. 

One of the IBM engineers who used to work on data warehousing has said that Postgres will perform significantly better on GB/TB-sized tables - but ultimately there&#039;s more at play than reliability &amp; speed; decent partial distribution and clustering are going to be must haves this year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve varied between InnoDB and MyISAM for this, MyISAM has unfortunate table-level locking which can hit us badly if we try do analysis on the table while the grid is running; but we&#8217;ve found it is more reliable &#8211; InnoDB has corrupted for us in the past and unlike MyISAM, there are no innodb repair tools &#8211; had to restore from backup.</p>
<p>Underlying disk is a RAID1 SCSI array, so the speed there isnt too much of a problem. The hardware itself is fairly decent &#8212; but it&#8217;s our experience that MySQL just doesnt do &#8216;big data&#8217; well. </p>
<p>One of the IBM engineers who used to work on data warehousing has said that Postgres will perform significantly better on GB/TB-sized tables &#8211; but ultimately there&#8217;s more at play than reliability & speed; decent partial distribution and clustering are going to be must haves this year.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Dowling</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/04/dbs-considered-harmful-to-my-sanity/comment-page-1/#comment-7974</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Dowling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 01:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=230#comment-7974</guid>
		<description>G&#039;day again :)

MySQL should be able to handle the load fine, but you&#039;ll have the same issues that you&#039;d have with any other RDBMS.

There&#039;s a few things I&#039;d be curious to know about the current setup. What storage engine are you guys using? What is the underlying storage? How does the database get to the underlying storage (local, nfs, iscsi)?

At the end of the day, in this type of scenario whilst the database is 100% definitively the authorative source for asset information, success will be measured by what caching/expiry you do outside the database.

Your recent posts scaling are making me tempted to put up my hand and offer some help - let me know if you need anything ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G&#8217;day again <img src='http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>MySQL should be able to handle the load fine, but you&#8217;ll have the same issues that you&#8217;d have with any other RDBMS.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a few things I&#8217;d be curious to know about the current setup. What storage engine are you guys using? What is the underlying storage? How does the database get to the underlying storage (local, nfs, iscsi)?</p>
<p>At the end of the day, in this type of scenario whilst the database is 100% definitively the authorative source for asset information, success will be measured by what caching/expiry you do outside the database.</p>
<p>Your recent posts scaling are making me tempted to put up my hand and offer some help &#8211; let me know if you need anything <img src='http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Adam Frisby</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/04/dbs-considered-harmful-to-my-sanity/comment-page-1/#comment-7958</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Frisby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 07:53:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=230#comment-7958</guid>
		<description>Hey Will,

Postgres apparently isnt too bad here - by MySQL has shown it definetely does not like 200GB tables (we&#039;ve had to recover it multiple times now - any any query against the table that isnt on the primary key will nuke the box for 2 hours). I have a feeling that any problems we have with MySQL right now will be significantly worse if we ever hit the same 300TB+ ranges Linden Lab do.

Re: on-disk performance, I don&#039;t think that will be an issue yet, but it is a long term consideration - the big options I am looking at now are using some FUSE-based &quot;filesystems&quot; designed for distribution and clustering across multiple machines. KosmosFS looks promising, but there are a few others too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Will,</p>
<p>Postgres apparently isnt too bad here &#8211; by MySQL has shown it definetely does not like 200GB tables (we&#8217;ve had to recover it multiple times now &#8211; any any query against the table that isnt on the primary key will nuke the box for 2 hours). I have a feeling that any problems we have with MySQL right now will be significantly worse if we ever hit the same 300TB+ ranges Linden Lab do.</p>
<p>Re: on-disk performance, I don&#8217;t think that will be an issue yet, but it is a long term consideration &#8211; the big options I am looking at now are using some FUSE-based &#8220;filesystems&#8221; designed for distribution and clustering across multiple machines. KosmosFS looks promising, but there are a few others too.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Dowling</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/04/dbs-considered-harmful-to-my-sanity/comment-page-1/#comment-7957</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Dowling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 01:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=230#comment-7957</guid>
		<description>Actually, databases are becoming more and more usable for storing things like this.

I&#039;d suggest as this dataset is only going to grow, you might be better off creating two seperate tables - one with the metadata (Filename, Checksum, AssetID, etc), and another with only three fields (Primary ID, Relational ID, Data).

I can also forsee using a traditional on-disk filesystem having some potentially devastating effects in this type of scenario also - for example, depending on the activity of the nodes pulling information down, are you going to have enough filehandles available on the operation system to serve up all your requests?

Either way, for this application - it might be beneficial to get yourself a copy of the MySQL query analyser, and enable the slow query log on the server so you guys can pinpoint which queries/tables need optimising for performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, databases are becoming more and more usable for storing things like this.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d suggest as this dataset is only going to grow, you might be better off creating two seperate tables &#8211; one with the metadata (Filename, Checksum, AssetID, etc), and another with only three fields (Primary ID, Relational ID, Data).</p>
<p>I can also forsee using a traditional on-disk filesystem having some potentially devastating effects in this type of scenario also &#8211; for example, depending on the activity of the nodes pulling information down, are you going to have enough filehandles available on the operation system to serve up all your requests?</p>
<p>Either way, for this application &#8211; it might be beneficial to get yourself a copy of the MySQL query analyser, and enable the slow query log on the server so you guys can pinpoint which queries/tables need optimising for performance.</p>
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		<title>By: Starky Rubble</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/04/dbs-considered-harmful-to-my-sanity/comment-page-1/#comment-7956</link>
		<dc:creator>Starky Rubble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Apr 2009 19:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=230#comment-7956</guid>
		<description>Very interesting stuff!

Thanks for posting and for notifying us in IRC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting stuff!</p>
<p>Thanks for posting and for notifying us in IRC.</p>
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