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	<title>Comments on: DTL-PayPal (or how you can transfer money in a virtual world without significant risk.)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/10/dtl-paypal-or-how-you-can-transfer-money-in-a-virtual-world-without-significant-risk/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/10/dtl-paypal-or-how-you-can-transfer-money-in-a-virtual-world-without-significant-risk/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 04:10:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Aleron</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/10/dtl-paypal-or-how-you-can-transfer-money-in-a-virtual-world-without-significant-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-8667</link>
		<dc:creator>Aleron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jan 2010 02:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=473#comment-8667</guid>
		<description>Great solution, Well done Adam. Perhaps an inworld script to accrue items and tally combined purchase totals then pass the total to paypal may be of use? Rather than just one at a time? On receipt of funds sellers inventory is accessed and items transferred to buyer inworld?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great solution, Well done Adam. Perhaps an inworld script to accrue items and tally combined purchase totals then pass the total to paypal may be of use? Rather than just one at a time? On receipt of funds sellers inventory is accessed and items transferred to buyer inworld?</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Frisby</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/10/dtl-paypal-or-how-you-can-transfer-money-in-a-virtual-world-without-significant-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-8593</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Frisby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:33:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=473#comment-8593</guid>
		<description>I disagree - I think the problem is there&#039;s a large disconnect between where merchants are now, and where they will end up -- the content industry outside of SL has been fine with the concept of &quot;royalty free&quot; content for quite some time. I think the long term model is going to look more like Turbosquid than Second Life, especially for OpenSim. 

As for a &quot;V$&quot; merchant - the problem simply is those currencies are fiat; and easy to skim - LL for example prints a huge chunk of money each month which is basically skimming from the virtual economy; when the economy shrinks (as it eventually will), don&#039;t expect LL to start buying back; and you&#039;ll end up with a serious economic problem that using real currencies avoids. I would only trust micropayments if they were done in a hard currency (or had a TOS that didn&#039;t disclaim any &lt;em&gt;fixed&lt;/em&gt; value.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree &#8211; I think the problem is there&#8217;s a large disconnect between where merchants are now, and where they will end up &#8212; the content industry outside of SL has been fine with the concept of &#8220;royalty free&#8221; content for quite some time. I think the long term model is going to look more like Turbosquid than Second Life, especially for OpenSim. </p>
<p>As for a &#8220;V$&#8221; merchant &#8211; the problem simply is those currencies are fiat; and easy to skim &#8211; LL for example prints a huge chunk of money each month which is basically skimming from the virtual economy; when the economy shrinks (as it eventually will), don&#8217;t expect LL to start buying back; and you&#8217;ll end up with a serious economic problem that using real currencies avoids. I would only trust micropayments if they were done in a hard currency (or had a TOS that didn&#8217;t disclaim any <em>fixed</em> value.)</p>
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		<title>By: Wayfinder</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/10/dtl-paypal-or-how-you-can-transfer-money-in-a-virtual-world-without-significant-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-8592</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayfinder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 16:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=473#comment-8592</guid>
		<description>While it is always good to have payment options, the difficulties and expense of using PayPal for in-world (or even web-based) purchases seems to me far greater than the leading alternative:  a central &quot;banking&quot; repository company to serve the purpose of handling C$ / V$ / L$ transactions.

Yes, such would be held by a central company.  That is why it would require a highly-professional, certified and trustworthy agency to perform such a task. I think with the potential of high profit involved, we can expect such an entity to appear over time.  Surely such an agency would charge far less in fees than PayPal or Amazon-- and would be directly tied in to in-world sales.

While there are as stated, certain obstacles to overcome, I have to believe such highly preferable to the difficulties and costs involved with trying to integrate expensive and cumbersome services such as PayPal or Amazon into the process.

The biggest obstacle I see at this time to any kind of OpenSim-based sales is the total lack of security for merchants.  With many sim owners having &quot;God rights&quot; to their sims, this creates an environment ripe for plundering of anyone foolish enough to bring their product into the wrong area.  

Until the issues of OpenSim security are dealt with and merchants better assured of the safety of their creations, most merchants with whom I&#039;ve spoken have no intention of bringing their products into the OpenSim environment.  

So as a merchant of several years experience, I would point out that for OpenSim to become a viable marketplace... we will need a centralized V$ banking system and security for our products.  Both are large hurdles that, considering the nature of the beast, may be in reality too large to overcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it is always good to have payment options, the difficulties and expense of using PayPal for in-world (or even web-based) purchases seems to me far greater than the leading alternative:  a central &#8220;banking&#8221; repository company to serve the purpose of handling C$ / V$ / L$ transactions.</p>
<p>Yes, such would be held by a central company.  That is why it would require a highly-professional, certified and trustworthy agency to perform such a task. I think with the potential of high profit involved, we can expect such an entity to appear over time.  Surely such an agency would charge far less in fees than PayPal or Amazon&#8211; and would be directly tied in to in-world sales.</p>
<p>While there are as stated, certain obstacles to overcome, I have to believe such highly preferable to the difficulties and costs involved with trying to integrate expensive and cumbersome services such as PayPal or Amazon into the process.</p>
<p>The biggest obstacle I see at this time to any kind of OpenSim-based sales is the total lack of security for merchants.  With many sim owners having &#8220;God rights&#8221; to their sims, this creates an environment ripe for plundering of anyone foolish enough to bring their product into the wrong area.  </p>
<p>Until the issues of OpenSim security are dealt with and merchants better assured of the safety of their creations, most merchants with whom I&#8217;ve spoken have no intention of bringing their products into the OpenSim environment.  </p>
<p>So as a merchant of several years experience, I would point out that for OpenSim to become a viable marketplace&#8230; we will need a centralized V$ banking system and security for our products.  Both are large hurdles that, considering the nature of the beast, may be in reality too large to overcome.</p>
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		<title>By: Ener Hax</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/10/dtl-paypal-or-how-you-can-transfer-money-in-a-virtual-world-without-significant-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-8580</link>
		<dc:creator>Ener Hax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Nov 2009 17:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=473#comment-8580</guid>
		<description>wow! simply wow Adam! i like the straight PayPal way as opposed to the mention above about depositing money like we do with Linden lab. as soon as you start holding money, all sorts of international laws come into play and so does escrow and a massive logistic nightmare (ie, you become an international bank)

of course, PayPal fees prevent small transactions like most people are used to in Second Life. but that is a change that is easier to make than becoming a bank.

as a grid owner, I could work a system of credits, using a PayPal subscription model, for my clients rather than putting that burden on OpenSim. with a little thought, the same could be done by shop owners

this isn&#039;t, and shouldn&#039;t, be an attempt to be &quot;like Second Life&quot;

good job Adam and &quot;holy cow!&quot; - massive kudos! =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow! simply wow Adam! i like the straight PayPal way as opposed to the mention above about depositing money like we do with Linden lab. as soon as you start holding money, all sorts of international laws come into play and so does escrow and a massive logistic nightmare (ie, you become an international bank)</p>
<p>of course, PayPal fees prevent small transactions like most people are used to in Second Life. but that is a change that is easier to make than becoming a bank.</p>
<p>as a grid owner, I could work a system of credits, using a PayPal subscription model, for my clients rather than putting that burden on OpenSim. with a little thought, the same could be done by shop owners</p>
<p>this isn&#8217;t, and shouldn&#8217;t, be an attempt to be &#8220;like Second Life&#8221;</p>
<p>good job Adam and &#8220;holy cow!&#8221; &#8211; massive kudos! =)</p>
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		<title>By: Snoopy Pfeffer</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/10/dtl-paypal-or-how-you-can-transfer-money-in-a-virtual-world-without-significant-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-8570</link>
		<dc:creator>Snoopy Pfeffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 10:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=473#comment-8570</guid>
		<description>After talking with Adam, I have created a forked git repository for the PayPal money module. It contains the latest extensions and bug fixes.

This page explains the current status of that Mod-PayPal module:
http://wiki.github.com/SnoopyPfeffer/Mod-PayPal/current-status

The repository can be found here:
http://github.com/SnoopyPfeffer/Mod-PayPal</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After talking with Adam, I have created a forked git repository for the PayPal money module. It contains the latest extensions and bug fixes.</p>
<p>This page explains the current status of that Mod-PayPal module:<br />
<a href="http://wiki.github.com/SnoopyPfeffer/Mod-PayPal/current-status" rel="nofollow">http://wiki.github.com/SnoopyPfeffer/Mod-PayPal/current-status</a></p>
<p>The repository can be found here:<br />
<a href="http://github.com/SnoopyPfeffer/Mod-PayPal" rel="nofollow">http://github.com/SnoopyPfeffer/Mod-PayPal</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tmos</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/10/dtl-paypal-or-how-you-can-transfer-money-in-a-virtual-world-without-significant-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-8545</link>
		<dc:creator>Tmos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=473#comment-8545</guid>
		<description>Adam,
Can you give us some info on compiling the code? Anything special I need to do? 

Also thanks for your work in this area! I really think that the ability to buy and sell thru a trusted system as paypal will help draw more interest to Open Sim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam,<br />
Can you give us some info on compiling the code? Anything special I need to do? </p>
<p>Also thanks for your work in this area! I really think that the ability to buy and sell thru a trusted system as paypal will help draw more interest to Open Sim.</p>
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		<title>By: TA</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/10/dtl-paypal-or-how-you-can-transfer-money-in-a-virtual-world-without-significant-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-8544</link>
		<dc:creator>TA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 19:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=473#comment-8544</guid>
		<description>Adam,
this is a great option sounds more secure than what we can currently offer i will be testing it in my small grid +1 thank you very much and could you please post a tutorial on how to do this whether i need to just place the files in or if i have to build from source. if placing the files in that is easy enough but if having to build from source i would get a bit confused still new at all of this</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam,<br />
this is a great option sounds more secure than what we can currently offer i will be testing it in my small grid +1 thank you very much and could you please post a tutorial on how to do this whether i need to just place the files in or if i have to build from source. if placing the files in that is easy enough but if having to build from source i would get a bit confused still new at all of this</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Frisby</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/10/dtl-paypal-or-how-you-can-transfer-money-in-a-virtual-world-without-significant-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-8542</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Frisby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 09:51:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=473#comment-8542</guid>
		<description>You need to be running against trunk there - the PP module was developed against what will be 0.6.9 (sorry!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You need to be running against trunk there &#8211; the PP module was developed against what will be 0.6.9 (sorry!)</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/10/dtl-paypal-or-how-you-can-transfer-money-in-a-virtual-world-without-significant-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-8540</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 00:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=473#comment-8540</guid>
		<description>hi, i am having compile with
&quot;Error	231	&#039;DeepThink.PayPal.DTLPayPalModule&#039; does not implement interface member &#039;OpenSim.Region.Framework.Interfaces.IRegionModuleBase.ReplacableInterface&#039;	C:\opensimdev\opensim\addon-modules\dtl-paypal\DTLPayPalModule.cs	51	18	DeepThink.PayPal
Error	233	&#039;OpenSim.Server.Base.ServerUtils&#039; does not contain a definition for &#039;ParseQueryString&#039;	C:\opensimdev\opensim\addon-modules\dtl-paypal\DTLPayPalModule.cs	272	63	DeepThink.PayPal
Error	234	&#039;OpenSim.Framework.Util&#039; does not contain a definition for &#039;FireAndForget&#039;	C:\opensimdev\opensim\addon-modules\dtl-paypal\DTLPayPalModule.cs	354	22	DeepThink.PayPal
&quot;
can u please help me
i am on opensim 0.6.8</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi, i am having compile with<br />
&#8220;Error	231	&#8216;DeepThink.PayPal.DTLPayPalModule&#8217; does not implement interface member &#8216;OpenSim.Region.Framework.Interfaces.IRegionModuleBase.ReplacableInterface&#8217;	C:\opensimdev\opensim\addon-modules\dtl-paypal\DTLPayPalModule.cs	51	18	DeepThink.PayPal<br />
Error	233	&#8216;OpenSim.Server.Base.ServerUtils&#8217; does not contain a definition for &#8216;ParseQueryString&#8217;	C:\opensimdev\opensim\addon-modules\dtl-paypal\DTLPayPalModule.cs	272	63	DeepThink.PayPal<br />
Error	234	&#8216;OpenSim.Framework.Util&#8217; does not contain a definition for &#8216;FireAndForget&#8217;	C:\opensimdev\opensim\addon-modules\dtl-paypal\DTLPayPalModule.cs	354	22	DeepThink.PayPal<br />
&#8221;<br />
can u please help me<br />
i am on opensim 0.6.8</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy Welles</title>
		<link>http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/2009/10/dtl-paypal-or-how-you-can-transfer-money-in-a-virtual-world-without-significant-risk/comment-page-1/#comment-8522</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy Welles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 07:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/?p=473#comment-8522</guid>
		<description>This is very interesting. I still think the web mashup type ideas with a portal for selling goods coupled with a paypal micro account etc.. would be a good idea. I always liked purchasing from a page and having it delivered in-world. Something like this with google checkout would be neat as well, although I don&#039;t believe they do micro payments.

Where there is a will, there is always a way.. :) Great ideas Adam.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is very interesting. I still think the web mashup type ideas with a portal for selling goods coupled with a paypal micro account etc.. would be a good idea. I always liked purchasing from a page and having it delivered in-world. Something like this with google checkout would be neat as well, although I don&#8217;t believe they do micro payments.</p>
<p>Where there is a will, there is always a way.. <img src='http://www.adamfrisby.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Great ideas Adam.</p>
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